Rushing Attack Gameplay Talk

Lets start by defining mixing it up. If a guy ran 70% to the outside is that mixing it up? My playbook is setup with a pass, a run to the outside (flip it to go left or right) and a run to the middle. If a run 1 left, 1 right, and 1 center, then I'm 66.6% outside runner.

Would this be acceptable?

......I would say so yes.

But its all about "opinions," and different views on what's acceptable and what's not.  And of course the biggest factor is the look the defense gives you.  If the line is being pinched every play then hell yeah outside runs will be prevalent in that game.

So when describing either good or bad, think about the defensive looks you were giving as well.

Rushing to the outside is well known in Madden. However it is extremely hard to get a good inside run play, yards. titan brian does have a good point. What is considered mixing it up? Alas there is also the option.

What bugs me a bit more then excessive outside running.. per say. Is when I look through boxscores before advance, and I see a lot of games with 8-12 pass attempt to 25+ rushing attempts. Unrealistic in my opinion. Idk if ide call it unsim or dirty strategy. It's just not realistic at all. Week one I saw one game that had 9 pass attempts, 29 rushing attempts. Now, that may have been a AP game for someone. If that's the case. I see it being more reasonable. Head to head, I think that's kinda cheesy. Even if it's someone who can beat ya both ways. I think that's where mixing up play calling is lacking.

Some users will intentionally run the ball because they cant pass lol...

...well guys need to key on the run then on defense.  The box score number of 25 runs vs 12 passes means nothing to me unless I see what the score was, and see what the defense was calling.  Are there 8 in the box?  Did you use some 4-4 to stop it?  Are you usering a safety for extra run support?

Gotta stop it, and force the offense to switch strategy.  At the same time though we need a nice realistic balance.  It's a fine line between both concepts but it is possible.

...I just saw this from Skyywalker_OG on GroupMe and its a great point.

You CANNOT simply call stock defenses and think you can stop the run.

If guys are running outside on you with success, then COUNTER IT.  Call an "Edge" blitz on one side and USER the safety on the other side.

You MUST MUST MUST come up with ways to stop it.  It CAN BE DONE.

Why take the approach of "Well he's not mixing it up enough" when YOU can take the approach of "Shit I'm gonna stop this guy cold so he's FORCED to mix it up."

Listen, our golden rule will ALWAYS be do NEVER abuse any 1 thing....but it still comes down to the opponent to stop the other guy.

Anyone who runs 25+ times a game and only passes 9-12 is straight cheese if it's done with consistency.

One point to remember and this is why people need to ask or know the facts about a game and hiw it went. I've had countless games where I'm up 34-7 or something like that at half and so I don't call one pass play for rest if game. I hate that but if I throw then I'll be called out fir running up score or not running it out. So sometimes my box score will read 13 pass attempts 29 runs. Not bc I want to but bc that's what I have to do by rule. So I'd say be careful when looking at box scores. You need to check points by quarter. I'm sure minor the only one that had had this but this happens 5-6 games a season for me. All good points brought out by the way I just wanted to throw that in there.

Chrebet is also right about how a D is called. Many games I've just seen stubborn play calling. Meaning I could be destroying a certain D but the own keeps coming out in the sane thing. So it is hard to blame the O sometimes. This is why mixing it up is the best D you can play but that's just my opinion. Some are comfortable in certain formations and I get that but if your getting smoked, it's time fir something else to be called.

How about this, the stock rosters have 75 run block as the highest # given to a receiver. Our league has 3 CB's with a 75 block shed (all on the same team). But our league has 21 WR's with higher than 75 run block on 11 different teams.

What I'm saying is that 11 teams realized outside runs easy with high run block WR's and pursued the strategy.

Us other 21 teams were left behind, and I'd assume people from this group is complaining.

Its not just defensive strategy, but team building, that contributes.

My CB's all have 99 man cover, and 99 zone cover, should i expect anybody to have as many passes as runs? No way! Especially if my opponent is one of the 11 teams that built a running game.

We all picked our team building strategies at the beginning, and we all thought, " this is how i will win". We need to admit we got it wrong

I got it wrong, lol

interesting conversation. so many variables can factor into it. under 20 pass attemts per game is not unnrealistic IMO if a few games that dips below 15 attempts I think thats not unrealistic…under 15 attempts game in and out is unrealistic tho

Ya but we will become nascar at some point if we keep restricting how to bud or play. NASCAR has every car built the same I'd hate to think we even think about that here. You build your team that the fun of it and it's part of busing to your play. We are starting to get out of control here. Lots of good thoughts but at some point we are over thinking out of boredom. So many teams draft and build to fit their style. You start messing with that more then we already have and it's not football anymore.

titanbrian wrote: How about this, the stock rosters have 75 run block as the highest # given to a receiver. Our league has 3 CB's with a 75 block shed (all on the same team). But our league has 21 WR's with higher than 75 run block on 11 different teams.

What I'm saying is that 11 teams realized outside runs easy with high run block WR's and pursued the strategy.

Us other 21 teams were left behind, and I'd assume people from this  group is complaining.

Its not just defensive strategy, but team building, that contributes.

My CB's all have 99 man cover, and 99 zone cover, should i expect anybody to have as many passes as runs? No way! Especially if my opponent is one of the 11 teams that built a running game.

We all picked our  team building strategies at the beginning, and we all thought, " this is how i will win". We need to admit we got it wrong

What you are trying to say is 11 people are lobby players who figured out (or read) how to cheese the game for m25.

Simple as that.  This is a "strategy" league.  And that means football strategy.....not lobby madden strategy.

It's all lobby shit.  Anyone who doesn't see that is blind.  Point is I could go look up these lobby tactics now and I'll have much success in the league.  To all the people playing real football....props.  To everyone bringing certain player ratings to unsim levels to cheat to AI....you suck and ruin the game.

My only complaint about the outside run / pistol guys is that it feels unrealistic and they are my least favorite games to play. Not because I lose against them (I win some and lose some) more so because it is no fun knowing my opponent if going to be running 3-4 different outside runs and option pitch plays from pistol all game ( pitch plays are screwed in madden 25 too you can have the qb getting wrapped up and he still makes a perfect pitch).

First and foremost I want to say this. I love this league. I've played with these guys since 2011 with the exception of a layover in getting my ps4. I know at times I've been hot after losing a game and said stupid things. But I think there's a good number of you that know I've text back within 24 hours, cooled down and apologized for being a asshole. None the less it's the Commishes and you owners that make this so enjoyable. Win or lose... As we all know I do my fair share of losing..lol Ps4 was a frustrating change!

I just want to share a Cpl text I sent to Chrebet in regards to my earlier post. It might explain what I was saying a little better. Hopefully you don't mind Chrebet... Just easier to copy and paste then retype.

Text one

Hey bro. Not trying to make waves so I'm not posting on the thread again I just have a question and a comment. My comment is, good thing we are a strategy league now. My point on the post was 25 rush att to 10 or less pass att is not is not at all SIM in regards to the nfl. That ratio would never happen. You know that. My question would be are we strategizing Highschool football or the NFL?
Many many games are more geared towards highschool football not the NFL. Box scores show that.

Text two:
I don't want you to think I'm bitching bro. I love playing here. A lot of you guys I consider friends that I've just never met. I also generally don't have a huge problem against the run. Season avg against me last season was 97.7 per game. I don't think that's to bad. So, I'm just pointing out what I feel is inconsistent with nfl play. Though I also understand blowouts force it, AP games as well. But I feel you can still throw the short game and not run up the score. Half of these guys average crazy ypc.. basically short passing game. So why not see more balance? That's all I'm getting at. But I'm down with whatever you guys decide. I love playing here win or lose. Good group of guys. And very well Commished. This league honestly does add a great deal of enjoyment to me. I'm appreciative for it, and the work put forth by you guys.

At the end of the day it's just my opinion. I'm not singling out anyone I promise. It's just been a simple observation. No real need to attack my opinion. I'm not attacking yours. Just adding my thoughts guys.

I also agree with cabbage and his comment on lobby play.

Has anyone looked at the actual NFL run/pass ratios by team from last year? If not then here you go: http://www.fftoday.com/stats/13_run_pass_ratios.html

The two best teams from last year (Seahawks, 49ers) had a higher ratio of runs than passes. To win at the highest levels of football you need to be able to run the football and stop the run. This has always been true and it always will be true.

Personally, I've been a run heavy guy since day one when I picked up Madden and that isn't changing regardless of what labels get thrown around. I've said it before on these forums and I'll say it again - there is NOTHING in this game that can't be stopped or schemed against. If you can't stop the outside run then STFU and step your game up.

skyywalker_og wrote:Has anyone looked at the actual NFL run/pass ratios by team from last year?  If not then here you go:  http://www.fftoday.com/stats/13_run_pass_ratios.html

The two best teams from last year (Seahawks, 49ers) had a higher ratio of runs than passes.  To win at the highest levels of football you need to be able to run the football and stop the run.  This has always been true and it always will be true.  

Personally, I've been a run heavy guy since day one when I picked up Madden and that isn't changing regardless of what labels get thrown around.  I've said it before on these forums and I'll say it again - there is NOTHING in this game that can't be stopped or schemed against.  If you can't stop the outside run then STFU and step your game up.  

Yes top nfl teams were discussed in the chat. One thing we also discussed was the top rushing att hb in nfl was mcCoy with 314, next highest and only other over 300 atts was Forte. This lg FAR over comes them numbers in Atts by one HB by 100+ atts. PLus the highest nfl run/pass ratio was 55%, only a few teams in that 50-55 range. We are talking about people who are 75% run. Nothing in NFL reaches that level, not even close. I understand people play to win, thats great. We as a lg has to decide do we want to just play to play or do you want it as realistic as possible to NFL. Dont matter either way, but a choice needs to be made, then rules or regulations need to be added or adjusted based off that.

Also the "top" rushing teams in hawks, 9ers, eagles, jets etc, all are a mojority INSIDE running play teams. Just a fun fact to throw in there for the hell of it and get the conversation going lol.

Im the only guy who raised his CBs block shed's to try and counter some of the WRs run blocking out there( put my top 3 cbs at 75 block shed). Helps a little but either way u spin it it dont matter. People will do what they want till consq are taken on a consistent basis. The rules are made by the commish, its really up to him to decide if someone is taking adv or breaking them. If they are in his eyes its his responsibility to take the final action. People can post, say anything they want, until action gets taken and is consistent it wont change.

DBE, does the higher block shed help you? Is your overall run defend good? 75 block shed will hurt the lower 22 teams, but the 11 teams are all higher than that. I assume its not JUST shed vs. run blk, but strength and awareness and agility could play a role.

If it makes a huge difference in a players ability to run the ball then maybe in Madden 15 run block should be in the same discussion as speed and throw power. Course if you try to limit run block for WR's, then you need to look at limiting block shed for CB's, then you just get into the NASCAR thing zee was referring too

Honestly all in all, it's also a match up game of how you play vs another regardless of your roster and how you built them. Anyone anytime with any team can get beat. Like my roster and my playing struggle against the jets but yet when I play the dolphins I can put up 38. When jets play dolphins I notice the dolphins either win or it's a very close game. Some owners match up better then others when facing certain teams. So saying someone is good bc they have 99 man cover cbs or a hb that gets 250 yards a game, to me is missing the point that it may not just the rister and players that beat you. Sometimes it is the owner and their play style. There are some owners that can shred a D with a passing game no matter how good of a defense you have. We need to play it out keep wirking on things we do not do well, evolve, do whatever with in the sim rules set to build to your strengths and also to the teams in your division. After all it is them you have to beat first as you try to land a playoff spot.