We all know strategy comes down to taking what your opportunity nent isngiveing you....and playing based on your personnel strengths.
Something else that comes into play (and there's no denying it)..is playing towards the weaknesses of the game. NFL teams do the same thing as play shifts towards weaknesses in the rules....for example it has become a pass happy league BC of the rules.
The question is...do some guys too far with it? There have been many discussions about this recently.
Despite strategy taking place in the above circumstances...we STILL do have a responsibility to mix up our play calls and gameplay...while always looking to expand gameplay.
It is that very fine line in between mixing up playcalls and playing heavy towards the game's weaknesses that perceive somebody as a Sim player or not.
Say you are running outside (clearly a weakness in M25)...and it is working all game as the defense cannot stop it. You still do have that responsibility to run up the middle occasionally. If the defense is spreading the line out and blitzing the edge...you have to take that opportunity to run up the middle...if only out of respect to the game and your opponent. Mix those run calls up.
Everybody can run powers and outside zones and tosses in this game. But do u have the balls to run it effectively up the middle when the opportunity is presented?...with dives, traps and isos.
Yes strategy is key....but our golden rule still is "never abuse any one thing.". And some guys are being rumored as abusing the outside run too much.
SIM play talk
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..same goes for passing the ball when the opportunity presents itself instead of running it against an 8 in the box look.
Its a fine line.
Its tough to be tokd to stop doing things that are working for you...it goes against any "football strategy" talk there is. But BC its a video game...that responsibility must still be there.
Having said all that though...it is still also up to the defense to figure out a way to stop your opponent.
For a real strategy/Sim game to be played...BOTH owners must do their part.
Its a fine line.
Its tough to be tokd to stop doing things that are working for you...it goes against any "football strategy" talk there is. But BC its a video game...that responsibility must still be there.
Having said all that though...it is still also up to the defense to figure out a way to stop your opponent.
For a real strategy/Sim game to be played...BOTH owners must do their part.
Ok.. Interesting topic. I am so tired of playing owners that are not sim.. Chrebet and Burndt have really tried to make this league an enjoyable league to be apart of.. I've held my peace for some time, But I'll say it, this League has a long way to go to be "sim".
I just played another game where I faced press (And mostly man) coverage all the way through to 38 sec left in the 3rd qtr. The change in defense came when the owner figured the game was won.. 28-6 at this point. This was so there is an opportunity to say ("I mixed up my playcalling").
Im so tired of facing man press all game.. Defending mostly outside runs.. To where only a few games are fun to play anymore.. There is a decision to make when this happens during the game. Say "To hell with it, I'll do the same, and may the best cheeze win" or 'I'll remain sim, and hope I can overcome the cheeze and get the win"
I'll also say this.. Its becoming intolerable. Something needs to happen. I'm voicing some frustration now, because I know what it feels like to be in an almost 100% sim league. And as hard as BC and Chrebet try to get this league to where it needs to be, its not "sim".
Now, I think this is the case because owners are either not reading the posts, or are down right ignoring the rules.. In order for this league to get on the right track, some examples will need to be made of owners that are unsim.. I promise, that's the only way it will change. I've seen it happen. I wish there was a way to record all of my games.. Maybe there is. If so, someone let me know, because I feel I absolutely have to in this League..
I just played another game where I faced press (And mostly man) coverage all the way through to 38 sec left in the 3rd qtr. The change in defense came when the owner figured the game was won.. 28-6 at this point. This was so there is an opportunity to say ("I mixed up my playcalling").
Im so tired of facing man press all game.. Defending mostly outside runs.. To where only a few games are fun to play anymore.. There is a decision to make when this happens during the game. Say "To hell with it, I'll do the same, and may the best cheeze win" or 'I'll remain sim, and hope I can overcome the cheeze and get the win"
I'll also say this.. Its becoming intolerable. Something needs to happen. I'm voicing some frustration now, because I know what it feels like to be in an almost 100% sim league. And as hard as BC and Chrebet try to get this league to where it needs to be, its not "sim".
Now, I think this is the case because owners are either not reading the posts, or are down right ignoring the rules.. In order for this league to get on the right track, some examples will need to be made of owners that are unsim.. I promise, that's the only way it will change. I've seen it happen. I wish there was a way to record all of my games.. Maybe there is. If so, someone let me know, because I feel I absolutely have to in this League..
....well I have one question for ya Str8Coach....what are you waiting for?!?!?!
Start voicing your opinion down our throats and make these scouting reports a mission for you to explain many things about what you see.
While I agree there are many owners that need to learn a thing or two....I completely disagree that this league has a "long way to go."
The reason is this.....the so-called "Sim league" most are used to take that concept to a level in which the game actually becomes "unrealistic" with very little strategy in mind at all. Some of the stuff I see in so-called "Sim" leagues has me laughing hard. Its gets to the point where they dont even try to win. I swear to god, I've seen guys call very few plays, have a slow paced tempo, remain patient in style, arbitrarily call different plays at different times, and they call themselves "Sim."
I do NOT want this league to become a league that has guys "arbitrarily" mixing up calls BC they feel its the "right" thing to do, with no strategy in mind.
This is NOT the league for you if you're used to the "classic" crappy version of what u think "Sim" is. We want to me more than that. With strategy in mind.
Str8Coach...what is your definition of SIM?
I agree a defense should never show a "press" look on every play....BUT let's be honest...the NFL is so much more simpler that Sim leagues actually try to make it sometimes. They have this fantasy that its so complicated and the "Sim" concept becomes one that's "fantasy" and not achievable rather than something that's real.
This is why I call this league a "strategy" league....BC most Sim leagues are a fantasy concept that is not "real" AMD guys who know nothing about football are called "Sim" guys.
Start voicing your opinion and pointing out things that you personally do not like. Its the only way. There is always room to improve (no matter what). But the gap for which u think it is Sim or not is always in the eye of the beholder.
Start voicing your opinion down our throats and make these scouting reports a mission for you to explain many things about what you see.
While I agree there are many owners that need to learn a thing or two....I completely disagree that this league has a "long way to go."
The reason is this.....the so-called "Sim league" most are used to take that concept to a level in which the game actually becomes "unrealistic" with very little strategy in mind at all. Some of the stuff I see in so-called "Sim" leagues has me laughing hard. Its gets to the point where they dont even try to win. I swear to god, I've seen guys call very few plays, have a slow paced tempo, remain patient in style, arbitrarily call different plays at different times, and they call themselves "Sim."
I do NOT want this league to become a league that has guys "arbitrarily" mixing up calls BC they feel its the "right" thing to do, with no strategy in mind.
This is NOT the league for you if you're used to the "classic" crappy version of what u think "Sim" is. We want to me more than that. With strategy in mind.
Str8Coach...what is your definition of SIM?
I agree a defense should never show a "press" look on every play....BUT let's be honest...the NFL is so much more simpler that Sim leagues actually try to make it sometimes. They have this fantasy that its so complicated and the "Sim" concept becomes one that's "fantasy" and not achievable rather than something that's real.
This is why I call this league a "strategy" league....BC most Sim leagues are a fantasy concept that is not "real" AMD guys who know nothing about football are called "Sim" guys.
Start voicing your opinion and pointing out things that you personally do not like. Its the only way. There is always room to improve (no matter what). But the gap for which u think it is Sim or not is always in the eye of the beholder.
For example...eye of the beholder....
Str8Coach you play in one of the better leagues in MaddenSimLeagues.
In have never played in one of those leagues.
But I have known many truly good football guys, or "Sim" guys that claim that maddensimleagues is anything but real football strategy. That they take the rules to an obscene level of unrealistic football.
I personally have no idea...but I've heard this from many guys who know how to play the right way.
Everybody has a different idea of the "correct" way to play. Its insane BC they is truly NO real definition of Sim.
....but as I said...keep voicing your opinion....its the only way. BC we are NOT where I'd like to see us right now. But at the same time I feel its to be expected considering hoenmany new guys we have.
Str8Coach you play in one of the better leagues in MaddenSimLeagues.
In have never played in one of those leagues.
But I have known many truly good football guys, or "Sim" guys that claim that maddensimleagues is anything but real football strategy. That they take the rules to an obscene level of unrealistic football.
I personally have no idea...but I've heard this from many guys who know how to play the right way.
Everybody has a different idea of the "correct" way to play. Its insane BC they is truly NO real definition of Sim.
....but as I said...keep voicing your opinion....its the only way. BC we are NOT where I'd like to see us right now. But at the same time I feel its to be expected considering hoenmany new guys we have.
Right Chrebet. And I think we are on the same page.. You are correct. The answer is to voice opinions and point out cheezy tendencies from owners. I will certainly do that as well as record all of my games. MaddenSim Leagues is a huge community. I'm only speaking from the top two leagues there (Alpha and Deathwish). They have a no whining concept, but are held to a code for not abusing proved/agreed upon madden flaws. And there are only a few of them..
For example.. Playing press 90% of the time will certainly get an owner booted after a 1 warning. calling 2 defenses all game long will certainly get an owner booted after 1 warning...
The concept of a strategy league makes absolute since.. Because some owners do confuse sim with doing what works based on what the other owner is doing offensively/defensively.. I get that. And I'm not one to confuse not liking the way someone plays versus unsim cheeze.. There is a difference..
Going forward, I am absolutely recording all of my games.. I think more owners should do the same.. Because I know the way my opponent played me will be done to another opponent if they think the game is not being recorded or watched. As a matter of fact, now that Ive addressed it, Im pretty sure that owner will play more sim next time we play, because he knows the game will be recorded..
....HELLS YES!!!
Record those games and voice your opinion...it is needed and much appreciated.
Record those games and voice your opinion...it is needed and much appreciated.
would it be likely to consider realistic sliders on the M15? looked at the sliders in game and everything is up to deafaults. I have played in a few other leagues with realistic sliders and it changes the game DRAMATICALLY.
We have sliders.
I think the main point here is to just be VOCAL. I'd even go as far as just saying calling people out is part of your job as an owner. This is no league for the shy that's for sure. You have to put yourself out there. Posting on the forum any things you see that are not right is key, but even just the conversation you have with people and the general way the league looks at an owner can prove HUGE when it comes to how that owner plays. If an owner is under heavy scrutiny, then they will not be able to play with these suspect strategies if the whole league is aware and vocal.
For example in the past 2 weeks, 2 owners have come under heavy scrutiny for their play exclusively in the groupme chat. Zeemen came under fire the entire last half of last season by a couple owners who got vocal in groupme chat. This prompted me to investigate and now he knows exactly how I feel about his team building and how cheesy I think it is. What I've seen and from what's been talked about between me and Chrebet, we could see some changes either to rules and/or owners to accomplish our goals for this "strategy league". This was all generated by a couple owners who got vocal in chat. The other guy under fire right now is Skywalker and those Browns. Lots of talk going on right now in chat about this guys play and weather he is sim or not. Believe I'll be tuning in for some Browns games this season and if I notice anything out of place, it could be a sad ending for Skywalker......
My point is the only reason I'm watching Browns and Chiefs games right now is because owners in chat got vocal. This is a very good thing. They didn't whine, complain, etc....just voiced opinions and were not disrespectful. This is exactly what we need to go to the next level. I think the mandatory scouting reports were a great addition, although I think the way they get done needs tweaked some, rule wise.
On a side note, I really feel their are 2 halves to the league. Those who are on groupme and those who are not. The owners who are involved in the daily conversations about sim play on groupme (which occurs alot) are truly the ones learning about the owners, the game, and providing input. I feel like the owners who are not a part of those conversations and can't see the things happening with owners and teams in chat miss out on a big part of the overall experience. Just my opinion I guess. I know some people just want to play their games and don't care to know anybody, but a lot certainly goes on there.
I think the main point here is to just be VOCAL. I'd even go as far as just saying calling people out is part of your job as an owner. This is no league for the shy that's for sure. You have to put yourself out there. Posting on the forum any things you see that are not right is key, but even just the conversation you have with people and the general way the league looks at an owner can prove HUGE when it comes to how that owner plays. If an owner is under heavy scrutiny, then they will not be able to play with these suspect strategies if the whole league is aware and vocal.
For example in the past 2 weeks, 2 owners have come under heavy scrutiny for their play exclusively in the groupme chat. Zeemen came under fire the entire last half of last season by a couple owners who got vocal in groupme chat. This prompted me to investigate and now he knows exactly how I feel about his team building and how cheesy I think it is. What I've seen and from what's been talked about between me and Chrebet, we could see some changes either to rules and/or owners to accomplish our goals for this "strategy league". This was all generated by a couple owners who got vocal in chat. The other guy under fire right now is Skywalker and those Browns. Lots of talk going on right now in chat about this guys play and weather he is sim or not. Believe I'll be tuning in for some Browns games this season and if I notice anything out of place, it could be a sad ending for Skywalker......
My point is the only reason I'm watching Browns and Chiefs games right now is because owners in chat got vocal. This is a very good thing. They didn't whine, complain, etc....just voiced opinions and were not disrespectful. This is exactly what we need to go to the next level. I think the mandatory scouting reports were a great addition, although I think the way they get done needs tweaked some, rule wise.
On a side note, I really feel their are 2 halves to the league. Those who are on groupme and those who are not. The owners who are involved in the daily conversations about sim play on groupme (which occurs alot) are truly the ones learning about the owners, the game, and providing input. I feel like the owners who are not a part of those conversations and can't see the things happening with owners and teams in chat miss out on a big part of the overall experience. Just my opinion I guess. I know some people just want to play their games and don't care to know anybody, but a lot certainly goes on there.
Pmkn...our sliders were worked on TIRELESSLY during the first two seasons. They are a VERY good set of sliders.
Is the non-groupme guys not on cuz its groupme. Would another chat get better participation?
Cabbage's response is spot on, well said!
Cabbage's response is spot on, well said!
I think participation is high compared to previous chats used in the past. I dunno, some owners just don't chat, lol.titanbrian wrote: Is the non-groupme guys not on cuz its groupme. Would another chat get better participation?
Cabbage's response is spot on, well said!
There's three key guys I'd like to see pop in every once in a while. Zeemen, Flybad, and str8coach. There maybe others, but those 3 are the main ones I think of when we are chatting about sim play, certain owners tendencies, etc. I think "what would athlete think, fly, zee,etc". I also would like to zee pop in and defend himself every once in a while, lmao.
If I pop on there don't be much said about me. If I lost some games no one would say a thing but well we know shat happens when you win 95% of the time. I'm at fault for that though I should throw some games here and there but it's hard to let some of these guys get a win when they play an arrogant style of football. I know last games I just played I checked off my runs to make sure I ran to differ enemy area. I ran 15 times. 5 to left 5 up middle 5 to right and 3 FB dives. I won though some I'm sure my opponent was mad seeing how he had a 14 point lead. But once you figure these fools out running the same stupid shit it's easy to stop in 2'nd half.
Cabbage us right I should chime in but to what? Complain after everything I see? No I'm all set. My opponent ran 18 dives so what it's stupid but I don't care enough to get on and complain. Off to the next guy. I also don't have as much time to sit infront if a CPU and I know Fly doesn't either.
@str8 coach. No league including yrs has 32 sim owners. I've joined some leagues this year just to see and they came highly recommended. From what I've found is that this league is above average and many others are far worse. Maybe yrs had more total sim guys but not 32. Also s is subjective. What I feel is pure sim, another owner may feel is not. Both play within the rules though so it's then hard to point and say someone is not sim. Now if your getting quick snapped to death or every play the d only rushes 3 then yes you could say that person is not very sim. I see people call same play 3-4 times a game which tells me they can't use their playbook. There is 400 plays to use and if you get 50-60 snaps a game, well that means there is 350 plays not used. So in my opinion I'd say no reason to be running same plays. Again it's not against the rules written that they can't run those plays more then once. See it's very subjective. My last thought is no one likes losing it's a fact. Some take it better then others. We do have some that feel they should never loose I'm guessing so when they do they really dig deep to accuse and not look at themselves to change or get better.
Cabbage us right I should chime in but to what? Complain after everything I see? No I'm all set. My opponent ran 18 dives so what it's stupid but I don't care enough to get on and complain. Off to the next guy. I also don't have as much time to sit infront if a CPU and I know Fly doesn't either.
@str8 coach. No league including yrs has 32 sim owners. I've joined some leagues this year just to see and they came highly recommended. From what I've found is that this league is above average and many others are far worse. Maybe yrs had more total sim guys but not 32. Also s is subjective. What I feel is pure sim, another owner may feel is not. Both play within the rules though so it's then hard to point and say someone is not sim. Now if your getting quick snapped to death or every play the d only rushes 3 then yes you could say that person is not very sim. I see people call same play 3-4 times a game which tells me they can't use their playbook. There is 400 plays to use and if you get 50-60 snaps a game, well that means there is 350 plays not used. So in my opinion I'd say no reason to be running same plays. Again it's not against the rules written that they can't run those plays more then once. See it's very subjective. My last thought is no one likes losing it's a fact. Some take it better then others. We do have some that feel they should never loose I'm guessing so when they do they really dig deep to accuse and not look at themselves to change or get better.
...we didn't even have a chat until M25. The participation is very good...but I do understand if guys don't like to use it....this is why our website IS and always will be our main source of information.
Talking about gameplay is neccesary and a constant reminder to always look at yourself in the mirror. I hate freestyle play...but I also hate when guys take the "Sim" concept too far....most guys that do that have NO idea what they're talking about when it comes to football and over complicate things.
This is a video game. There is no chance in hell we are ever gonna get to the point where the game is flawless and there isn't an easy way to manipulate certain things (like the outside run in m25).
That is the games responsibility to make that correct.....not ours.
BUT yeah if you abuse something to an obnoxious point, then u will be labeled a freestyle guy that is not enjoyable to play against. If you follow our golden rule "do not abuse any one thing," then you're fine.
This league is NOT a bad gameplay league....its actually quite good....but there is always room for improvement.... and talking about it and doing these scouting reports and adding footage will only help.
Talking about gameplay is neccesary and a constant reminder to always look at yourself in the mirror. I hate freestyle play...but I also hate when guys take the "Sim" concept too far....most guys that do that have NO idea what they're talking about when it comes to football and over complicate things.
This is a video game. There is no chance in hell we are ever gonna get to the point where the game is flawless and there isn't an easy way to manipulate certain things (like the outside run in m25).
That is the games responsibility to make that correct.....not ours.
BUT yeah if you abuse something to an obnoxious point, then u will be labeled a freestyle guy that is not enjoyable to play against. If you follow our golden rule "do not abuse any one thing," then you're fine.
This league is NOT a bad gameplay league....its actually quite good....but there is always room for improvement.... and talking about it and doing these scouting reports and adding footage will only help.
chrebet1024 wrote:That is the games responsibility to make that correct.....not ours.
I completely 100% disagree with you. If the game maker can not make a flawless game then it IS up to us to make the game better by banning certain tactics or even certain controls built into the game. Just because ea didn't get it completely right does not mean we can't make it better.
Im going to record all my games.. So Im not worried about what I'll face anymore. Its a shame I have to do that though, but its really the best way to point out unsim play. Hopefully the next 14 games play will be sim experiences.
I don't like to lose like most any other owner.. But what I can barely tolerate is losing to unsim tactics... That's unacceptable for me. To me, its the same as cheating.. So if I have a problem with another owners game play, it will be broadcasted for everyone to judge and make a ruling on..
I don't like to lose like most any other owner.. But what I can barely tolerate is losing to unsim tactics... That's unacceptable for me. To me, its the same as cheating.. So if I have a problem with another owners game play, it will be broadcasted for everyone to judge and make a ruling on..
Post em up....I think when the commishes get away from the "Sim" reminder (like we did all of last season)....we go backwards a bit.
The activity was lower than normal.
Un-Sim tactics are unnaceptable and should be pointed out. When I say I hate people that go "over-board" with the Sim discussion, I am not talking about you Athlete.
The activity was lower than normal.
Un-Sim tactics are unnaceptable and should be pointed out. When I say I hate people that go "over-board" with the Sim discussion, I am not talking about you Athlete.
Who you talking about then?chrebet1024 wrote:Post em up....I think when the commishes get away from the "Sim" reminder (like we did all of last season)....we go backwards a bit.
The activity was lower than normal.
Un-Sim tactics are unnaceptable and should be pointed out. When I say I hate people that go "over-board" with the Sim discussion, I am not talking about you Athlete.
Sorry fir the typos guys I was driving and trying to type it out. I shouldn't do that the law says. Lol. Anyway all great points. Chrebet I agree with what you said 100%. Never going to be perfect video games are not. It is up to us to try and this league dies well at it. Those that have gripe need to post the games they have issues with. I started recording my games not so much to scout the opponent but to see if I can improve on run selection and or defensive line schemes to stop stretches and tosses. But hey they labbing I guess to get better. To his his own though on the time you put Into madden.
One other thought I had was some people are just good football minds. Some are not. Sometimes it's not just plays called but this game rewards those who run run run they hit a play action. This game actually plays real in that matter. If you throw throw throw then play action, not as effective. So kinda like real football there are many small things I've found that I'm sure others have not. One more without revealing too much is the abuse if the same wr rout. Run it 5-6 times in the first half but then watch as yr next pass to the same rout get a pick 6. This game rewards you for mixing it up. If you don't think so go lab it you will see.
One other thought I had was some people are just good football minds. Some are not. Sometimes it's not just plays called but this game rewards those who run run run they hit a play action. This game actually plays real in that matter. If you throw throw throw then play action, not as effective. So kinda like real football there are many small things I've found that I'm sure others have not. One more without revealing too much is the abuse if the same wr rout. Run it 5-6 times in the first half but then watch as yr next pass to the same rout get a pick 6. This game rewards you for mixing it up. If you don't think so go lab it you will see.
chrebet1024 wrote:...the so-called "Sim league" most are used to take that concept to a level in which the game actually becomes "unrealistic" with very little strategy in mind at all. Some of the stuff I see in so-called "Sim" leagues has me laughing hard. Its gets to the point where they dont even try to win. I swear to god, I've seen guys call very few plays, have a slow paced tempo, remain patient in style, arbitrarily call different plays at different times, and they call themselves "Sim."
I do NOT want this league to become a league that has guys "arbitrarily" mixing up calls BC they feel its the "right" thing to do, with no strategy in mind.
This is NOT the league for you if you're used to the "classic" crappy version of what u think "Sim" is. We want to me more than that. With strategy in mind.
I agree 100%. Football isn't checkers, it's chess. This is a complicated game that requires planning, critical thinking and fast decision making. That's the way I was taught to play the game in high school and in college and that's the way I play Madden now.
BurntCabbage wrote:Who you talking about then?chrebet1024 wrote:Post em up....I think when the commishes get away from the "Sim" reminder (like we did all of last season)....we go backwards a bit.
The activity was lower than normal.
Un-Sim tactics are unnaceptable and should be pointed out. When I say I hate people that go "over-board" with the Sim discussion, I am not talking about you Athlete.
:)
....im talking aboug the difference between guys going TOO FAR or having legitimate complaints.
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